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[Matchday] [Champions League] Manchester Utd vs.Barcelona (10/04/19) 1st Leg
10-04-2019, 09:08 PM
Post: #41
RE: [Champions League] Manchester Utd vs.Barcelona (10/04/19) 1st Leg
Costas -

I don't really see what Ole did wrong. He seems to do what I want but they players dont reflect the quality or standard demanded.
Barca was poor, Spurs,Liverpool,City would beat that poor barca side. I think Ole has been great, you can see the progress in attitude and mentality but the quality, experience and skill level is far too low.

I really think 2 months ago, we win this game even with a corrupt referee. Ole is still great, it's the players who have once again who keep proving how poor they are.

Young - Awful footballer. I was praying for Wes Brown or Rafael Da Silva.
Lindelof - Kept Suarez in check.
Smalling - Bossed Suarez and Messi.
Shaw - World class, but offers no attacking threat.
Dalot - Potential world class there. Our most creative outlet.

Fred - 50/50 - Most frustrating player since Nani. Great then Poor, wins possession then loses possession. Excellent vision then crappy passing.
Pogba - Decent, best midfielder on the pitch, wasteful tricks and flicks.
McTominay - Star of the midfield, made one error with a hopeful long ball.

Rashford - Showed for the ball but lacked technique, intelligence and looked like Bebe.
Lukaku - Coward.
(Martial - poor touch and not sharp. Lingard - nothing. )
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10-04-2019, 09:29 PM
Post: #42
RE: [Champions League] Manchester Utd vs.Barcelona (10/04/19) 1st Leg
(10-04-2019 09:04 PM)BuffaloRed Wrote:  
(10-04-2019 08:46 PM)Costas Wrote:  That was men against boys in the end.

Just a depressing night all around. We are miles away from even thinking about being a top team again. Our best players were McTom and a half decent Fred who was out of position.

Since the Paris win we have 4 losses and 1 win we didn't deserve. Something is clearly wrong. Ole's tinkering is now affecting the form of some players

Just got home. What has happened since Paris? Have the players felt that was enough for the season. All I saw was extra time and Barca passed the bill around and United just stood there watching.stats said no shots on goal. Won’t bother watching the game.

How can this be the same team that went on that winnning streak? There is something wrong with players attitude in my opinion. They wanted to prove Josecsucked and they did now they seem complacent again.

This, more or less. As soon as we knocked out PSG, they thought they proved Mourinho was the problem and they switched off. Especially Pogba. Some of the tactical decisions also haven't helped.
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10-04-2019, 09:48 PM
Post: #43
RE: [Champions League] Manchester Utd vs.Barcelona (10/04/19) 1st Leg
Papii, Ole has overcomplicated things with his tactical tinkering. Our best spell came playing 4-3-3 or a diamond 4-4-2 and playing on the counter. Simple and effective. We fluked that win with an emergency team in Paris and since then he's been trying out different formations and playing players out of position to adapt to each opponent. Exactly what Mourinho was doing, causing our football to deteriorate and the players to get confused.

Tonight, there was no reason to park the fucking bus from the first minute of the tie. At Old Trafford, no less. That's all Barcelona needed to get on top of us and score the goal they wanted. After that, all we did was huff and puff. Exactly the same kind of game we had against Juventus at Old Trafford
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10-04-2019, 10:39 PM
Post: #44
RE: [Champions League] Manchester Utd vs.Barcelona (10/04/19) 1st Leg
(10-04-2019 09:05 PM)BuffaloRed Wrote:  Honestly I can’t even be bothered to get mad. Enjoy the match Tuesday bc there won’t be champs league next year either....

Could be a blessing!
Maureen left us 12 points behind and a dip was expected under Ole. Maureen had a 5 month dip and we are still close to top 4 in spite of that.
Players being shite so quickly after Ole was given the job isn't Ole's fault. We know we have some downright disingenuous characters in the club like Lukaku, Pogba,Matic,Herrera,Alexis and Phil Jones.

We all knew we needed 4 signings, with departures we need 5-6 new players.
But not just that, Woodward only invests in the the squad when it fails to qualify for CL.

In terms of balance, we have too many crap players, too many young players and not enough experience. Not enough quality and the some of the players have a weak mentality/skillset.

Guys like ,Rojo,Bailly, Darmian,Valencia are never in contention to start. We only really need Jones and Perreira, the rest are unreliable in being unreliable.

There's also well paid big characters who cannot be squad players like Lukaku,Alexis,Mata.

It's pretty damning that we have a set of average squad players that play far too many games a season; Smalling,Jones, Young, Lingard and not enough players in the age/quality bracket as De Gea, Lindelof, Fred, Pogba, Shaw who could play for any of our rivals.We only have 5 players who are 24-28 and good enough, the rest are too young /old.

This squad requires major surgery. Maybe without Top 4 we can expect for sure the approx £300m investment we need in 4-5 players and the much needed 8/9 departures. I can't see Woodward have any ambitions to spend if we secure his financial aims for qualifying for CL.

We cannot even criticize Ole until he gets the chance to make decisions and build his own side. Until he gets two summer windows, he'll always be managing another man's mess.
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10-04-2019, 11:10 PM
Post: #45
RE: [Champions League] Manchester Utd vs.Barcelona (10/04/19) 1st Leg
(10-04-2019 09:48 PM)Costas Wrote:  Papii, Ole has overcomplicated things with his tactical tinkering. Our best spell came playing 4-3-3 or a diamond 4-4-2 and playing on the counter. Simple and effective. We fluked that win with an emergency team in Paris and since then he's been trying out different formations and playing players out of position to adapt to each opponent. Exactly what Mourinho was doing, causing our football to deteriorate and the players to get confused.

Tonight, there was no reason to park the fucking bus from the first minute of the tie. At Old Trafford, no less. That's all Barcelona needed to get on top of us and score the goal they wanted. After that, all we did was huff and puff. Exactly the same kind of game we had against Juventus at Old Trafford


Hugely disagree mate. Paris wasn't a fluke mate, we beat them 3-1 and it was a hard fought victory. The last goal and ultimate aggregate result was fortunate but not a fluke. It was karma for injustice of the 1st leg.

We have played 4-3-3, maybe not the diamond Ok and we have been more negative in recent weeks but remember Matic and Herrera? They got shoe horned in and they torpedoed our form. He tried his best to regain the form we lost before the injury crisis against Liverpool. He was unfair to Fred and McTominay in the process. It was not a intention tinkering, it was done out of desperation. Herrera,Matic, Lingard,Rashford, Martial,Lukaku all suffered injuries . Maureen was correct about one thing - We have a team of injured and permanently injured players. - Every year there is a injury crisis ! It's not Ole specifically or Maureen, we have issue with broken footballers.

Night and Day between Juve and Barca at OT. We was the better team tonight by a mile and deserved a draw if not for a lack of quality which is a common theme in the last 6 years. Against Juve we wasn't interested in a draw let alone a win. At least we pressed Barca and attacked them despite being toothless. Blame that on Rashford,Lukaku, Pogba, Fred, Young being chickens.

Yes we started badly, but we was naturally cautious. Its Barcelona! A team that can put 2 past us in the space of 3-4 minutes. Their worst players were Lenglet,Semedo,Arthur, Coutinho. There equals would be Lindelof, Shaw,McTominay and Fred who happened to be our best players tonight Icon_lol
Our worst players like Young and Lukaku, our young players like Rashford and Scott, Dalot played their parts in our shaky and cautious start.

Ole doesn't have the finished articles to work with.

On another day I would blame Ole for being negative but not today .He tried the diamond against Watford. He tried the Flat 4-4-2/ 4-3-3 against Arsenal. He tried the diamond against Wolves and he even tried the back 3 and wing backs against Wolves 2nd time around.

But the reasons are there:
- Adrenaline dump vs Arsenal as you stated before the game. Individuals cost us like Lukaku.
- Shoe horning Matic and Herrera in against Wolves and Watford causing 2 poor performances.
- The Back 3 improved the performance but individuals fucked up against Wolves.

We are overlooking how bad Rashford has been. How bad Pogba has been.
How awful Lukaku is.
How bad Matic and Herrera have been !
The injuries to Lingard and Martial is being overlooked.

I am very critical of management but Ole's results are suffering because of the same players that became magical post Maureen's sacking.

It's time be critical of Rashford and Pogba. Of Lukaku and Matic. Of Herrera and De Gea. Of Young and Smalling. Of Fred, of Romero, Of Shaw

The 5 past results give me flashbacks of individual moments that cost us big time.
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11-04-2019, 09:06 AM
Post: #46
RE: [Champions League] Manchester Utd vs.Barcelona (10/04/19) 1st Leg
Papii, I don't disagree about the players' lack of quality or obvious complacency since the PSG result (what a piss poor attitude to think that knocking out PSG made this a successful season for them). I am just saying that regardless of all this, we could have adopted a more positive approach from the off. This Barcelona team is not particularly great. Remember how PSG, Juve and Roma put them through the sword in recent years. They did it by taking the game to them at home. I didn't expect a 3-0 or 4-0 win of course, but we have a more energetic and athletic team than them. Why didn't we press high from the start like we did after we went 1-0 down? We showed them too much respect and we conceded the decisive goal as a result. Like I said last night, Moyes was also defensive minded against Bayern, but at least he played Welbeck up front to disrupt them. He didn't play 10 men behind the halfway line.

The tinkering problem is an issue for me because I feel that Solskjaer is trying too hard to adapt. For example, last night we saw Shaw as a CB. Shaw, who is our only full back who can offer something going forward. I understand that we needed to do a job on Messi, but how the hell were we going to score under those circumstances? Young was horrendous (13 crosses and not one found a teammate) and Dalot can't show his attacking qualities as a left WB. We lost our width and that's why Lukaku and Rashford kept going into wide areas. I feel no need to defend these two, but that's a big reason why they were awful. The system we were playing forced them to ran in areas that rendered them useless. Ole tried the same system at Molineux (only with Young instead of Shaw as the CB) and, again, as soon as we conceded the first goal it was hopeless. Ole saw that his 4-3-3 against Arsenal and Wolves (in the cup) didn't work so he immediately figured that he has to change systems, even though the real problem, like you said, was playing rusty players who killed our momentum. Now it's all a mess. We don't know what our best system is or what our best first XI is. The PSG win came after a good run of results with our new midfielders. Now we won't even have that going into the Nou Camp. I doubt we'll even beat West Ham.

Like Buffalo said, maybe we should just enjoy next week's game for what it is and wait to return to the Ch.League when the whole experience isn't so depressing (especially at Old Trafford!). Truth be told, our performances throughout the entire season don't warrant a top 4 finish above Arsenal or Spurs. They're better than us. Maybe no Ch.League will mean less money for Ole to spend, but I don't think Ole was looking to spend money on superstars anyway. Transfer speculation is linking us to up and coming players and Koulibaly is probably the most recognizable transfer target. The goal seems to be to build a healthy young side that will challenge for major honors in 2 years.
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11-04-2019, 09:11 AM
Post: #47
RE: [Champions League] Manchester Utd vs.Barcelona (10/04/19) 1st Leg
Just for comparison's sake, here are the stats from the Juve game:

https://www.uefa.com/uefachampionsleague...ml?iv=true

And here are the stats from last night's game:

https://www.uefa.com/uefachampionsleague...ml?iv=true

There's not much difference. And the pattern of the games wasn't that different. We faced experienced clubs with more quality, they scored very early and we spent the rest of the game huffing and puffing without creating many chances. The gulf in quality is undeniable, but in both games we played into their hands tactically.
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11-04-2019, 04:17 PM
Post: #48
RE: [Champions League] Manchester Utd vs.Barcelona (10/04/19) 1st Leg
I won't criticise Ole too harshly for yesterday or the last 5 games. I've had my moments of doubt but you have to remember these are not his players, no pre season, no recruitment and a terrible squad to boot. The day Jose got sacked these piss poor players became accountable for themselves.

I believe it's 50/50 portion of blame, where Ole has given 100% effort to salvage the situation in the injury crisis and adrenaline dump, he's been let down hugely by senior footballers like: Young,Matic,Herrera,Mata, Alexis.
Pogba and Lukaku seem to embody the lack of responsibility and accountability. They are 25/26, they are both on superstar wages but neither can perform once well in 5 games.

Ole will rediscover the best system and best squad once everything falls into place however that's not happened for 6 years !
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11-04-2019, 05:49 PM
Post: #49
RE: [Champions League] Manchester Utd vs.Barcelona (10/04/19) 1st Leg
Have to add.
For the closing part of the season we know our squad. It's been 5 games post honeymoon and theres no hiding place for anyone.

DDG Dalot Smalling Lindelof Shaw Fred McTominay Pogba Lingard Rashford Martial
Squad players: Romero. Young.Jones.Matic, Perreira,Herrera, Lukaku. (Greenwood,Chong, Gomes,Garner)

Barring crisis I don't expect to ever see Darmian, Bailly, Rojo. Mata, Alexis again, even in crisis, Ole would be gullible fool to trust any of them.

I don't expect Ole to tinker. Young has done significant damage to his reputation on the biggest occasion. He has given Ole all the nails for his coffin and a manager worth his salt knows Young is a liability. Ole will have to figure out if he wants to play a back 3 to accommodate Dalot or throw Dalot straight into a Right Back slot.

Matic is a lesser player these days to Fred and McTommy, again Ole would be a bad judge if he persists with a liability like Matic.
Herrera has not showed up in the most important part of the season and he's squad player until he proves to better than Fred/McTominay who are fit and fighting every week,

Lukaku is a sub. Lingard is a squad man. They can rotate.
Jones is a squad player, he can come in/out .

I don't expect Ole to tinker beyond what we have seen already. 433/442-diamond/352. Once Barcelona eliminate us,we go 100MPH at preparing the best 11 right now for next season.
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15-04-2019, 10:33 AM
Post: #50
RE: [Champions League] Manchester Utd vs.Barcelona (10/04/19) 1st Leg
Our travelling squad to Barcelona: David De Gea, Sergio Romero, Lee Grant, Diogo Dalot, Matteo Darmian, Ashley Young, Phil Jones, Victor Lindelof, Marcos Rojo, Chris Smalling, Luke Shaw, Fred, Nemanja Matic, Scott McTominay, Andreas Pereira, Paul Pogba, Jesse Lingard, Juan Mata, Anthony Martial, Alexis Sanchez, Romelu Lukaku, Marcus Rashford.

Obviously Grant, Shaw, Darmian and Sanchez will be left out. There were times this week when I wondered if Alexis can be motivated enough to make a difference against his former club (even as a sub), but he hasn't played in weeks. Put Rojo on the bench instead in case another full back gets injured.

Seeing Matic there worries me. I don't think he should start this game given his form since the Chelsea game. Even if Ole decides to play with 2 DMs.
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