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[Matchday] [Premier League] Liverpool Vs. Manchester Utd 14.10.17
16-10-2017, 08:04 AM
Post: #41
RE: [Premier League] Liverpool Vs. Manchester Utd 14.10.17
(15-10-2017 11:14 AM)BuffaloRed Wrote:  But Klopps an idiot. A draw left them in eighth and us second. He chose not to push forward w his back line out of fear of our attackers winning the match. So essentially he had same plan as Jose to not concede. He and Pep can only play one way. United, when Fele and Pogba are available, can change styles to suit the opposition. Plus Rash wasn’t fully fit yesterday. The big problem was two man midfield so play was mostly in our half. It’s worked for Jose before but not yesterday. Lukaku should have buried his chance.

I've heard this arguement elsewhere and I don't get it at all, to be honest. Klopp is getting blamed for not taking a bigger risk which would have helped United steal the game. Why would he shoot himself on the foot? If his team is not going to score a goal after all the pressure it's piling up on us (whether it's because of De Gea's heroics or Mane's absence), then of course he will make sure he avoids a sucker punch. That doesn't mean he didn't want to win the game. His team at least tried to attack and win the game.

The whole thing worries me more than anything, because it proves that even Klopp is wise to Mourinho's smash and grab tactic. So it's time to rethink it, regardless of how many absences we have. This is like the 4th time in the past 6 months we've played like this away at a top 6 club and blamed it on injuries, tiredness or what have you. As for Pep, lets not be too hasty. There's a good chance he's learned his lessons and adapts to the league better this season. He's less of an elitist than Klopp, IMO.
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16-10-2017, 04:09 PM
Post: #42
RE: [Premier League] Liverpool Vs. Manchester Utd 14.10.17
(16-10-2017 08:04 AM)Costas Wrote:  I've heard this arguement elsewhere and I don't get it at all, to be honest. Klopp is getting blamed for not taking a bigger risk which would have helped United steal the game. Why would he shoot himself on the foot? If his team is not going to score a goal after all the pressure it's piling up on us (whether it's because of De Gea's heroics or Mane's absence), then of course he will make sure he avoids a sucker punch. That doesn't mean he didn't want to win the game. His team at least tried to attack and win the game.

The whole thing worries me more than anything, because it proves that even Klopp is wise to Mourinho's smash and grab tactic. So it's time to rethink it, regardless of how many absences we have. This is like the 4th time in the past 6 months we've played like this away at a top 6 club and blamed it on injuries, tiredness or what have you. As for Pep, lets not be too hasty. There's a good chance he's learned his lessons and adapts to the league better this season. He's less of an elitist than Klopp, IMO.

My mate is a obnoxious Mourinho hating football philosopher and he put in a way that I can totally agree with be depressed about.

Mourinho is so anti-risk and pragmatic. At the first sign of a banana skin game, he shuts up shop and would take 1 point rather than risk everything for 3 and end up with 0.

For example, in April-May last season we recorded 1 win in 8, 4 Draws and folded to Arsenal and Spurs because we could not hold on the draw. We couldn't beat Arsenal/Arsenal because we just played Celta Vigo ( a ooor side) midweek twice and made an easy job difficult.

Mourinho's pathetic excuses for throwing the PL was:
- Prioritising the cup over 4th place.
- Rotating to keep the EL players fit.
- Injuries despite having a big squad, big enough to sell 3 players.

Mourinho's big game record at United is a major disappointment. He has clearly lost his way in that department. He has failed to leave his signature mark on the club, we don't play intelligently like his Chelsea and Inter sides. We don't even play like his rebellious, numbskull Real side who at least had 6-7 world class players, we barely have 6-7 great players.

He has no romance for the game and risk averse to a degree he wastes every spectator's time. I refuse to believe Mourinho sent us out to win last weekend or last year at Anfield. He clearly thinks we are inferior to Liverpool at Anfield at any given time.

We are still plagued by the same issues when the going gets tough:
- Inferior attitude
- We need a goalscoring winger. Young is trash.
- We need a left back, our options are garbage and average at best.
- We don't have ball playing defenders or even great defenders. We range from Lindelof to fucking Jones to Smalling.

Mourinho is the right man for the job and his mandate is to win the league. But it doesn't mean he is doing the right things all of the time. At time's he will become a parody of himself and this is one of those times.

Cheetah never changes his stripes, I'm just disappointed that after £300m spent, we still can't compete toe to toe with last years 4th place side despite both sides being on equal playing fields.

We will see these mind numbing performances over at Etihad, Wembley, Emirates and Stamford bridge and that worries me. Did we win any away games there last season? Has anything changed in mentality since??
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16-10-2017, 05:25 PM (This post was last modified: 16-10-2017 05:43 PM by @JC.)
Post: #43
RE: [Premier League] Liverpool Vs. Manchester Utd 14.10.17
(16-10-2017 04:09 PM)Clint-TheyCallMePapii Wrote:  Mourinho's pathetic excuses for throwing the PL was:
- Prioritising the cup over 4th place.
- Rotating to keep the EL players fit.
- Injuries despite having a big squad, big enough to sell 3 players.

After winning the EL and getting that CL spot, it's pretty hard to argue that he was wrong. All eggs in one basket and all but his gamble paid off.

Also regarding Liverpool, yes we know they have a suspect defense but at Anfield against the top 6 it's not as clear cut as that. Over 2016/17, we drew them 0-0 and they beat Spurs 2-1 (EFL cup), City 1-0, Chelsea drew 1-1, then they beat Spurs 2-0 and Arsenal 3-1. This season at Anfield they've beat Arsenal 4-0 and we've drawn them 0-0, sure they got pummeled by City but that was at the Emptyhad. Just pointing out that other teams have set up to attack them at Anfield over the past year and come away without a point. I believe Mourinho has a plan for how to get enough points to win the league and that includes getting at least 1 out of our big away matches, not attacking and coming home with nothing. We won't know til the end of the season if his plan works as well this time.
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17-10-2017, 01:44 PM (This post was last modified: 17-10-2017 01:47 PM by Clint-TheyCallMePapii.)
Post: #44
RE: [Premier League] Liverpool Vs. Manchester Utd 14.10.17
(16-10-2017 05:25 PM)@JC Wrote:  After winning the EL and getting that CL spot, it's pretty hard to argue that he was wrong. All eggs in one basket and all but his gamble paid off.

Also regarding Liverpool, yes we know they have a suspect defense but at Anfield against the top 6 it's not as clear cut as that. Over 2016/17, we drew them 0-0 and they beat Spurs 2-1 (EFL cup), City 1-0, Chelsea drew 1-1, then they beat Spurs 2-0 and Arsenal 3-1. This season at Anfield they've beat Arsenal 4-0 and we've drawn them 0-0, sure they got pummeled by City but that was at the Emptyhad. Just pointing out that other teams have set up to attack them at Anfield over the past year and come away without a point. I believe Mourinho has a plan for how to get enough points to win the league and that includes getting at least 1 out of our big away matches, not attacking and coming home with nothing. We won't know til the end of the season if his plan works as well this time.

So your not concerned by our big game record at all? Especially after last season ...

Top 6 Table
City (H) 2-1 L
Liverpool (A) 0-0 D
Chelsea (A) 4-0 L
Arsenal (H) 1-1 D
Spurs (H) 1-0 W
Liverpool (H) 1-1 D
Chelsea (H) 2-0 W
City (A) 0-0 D
Arsenal (A) 2-0 L
Spurs (A) 2-1 L
----------------------------
P:10 W:2 D:4 L:4 Pts: 10/30
Our Away Record is:
P:5 W:0 D:2 L:3 Pts 2/15

Man City wiped the floor with Chelsea away from home and smashed Liverpool 5-0. This thing about Pep's team not sustaining form is guesswork, they have tossed aside teams with record goal scored and face the same challenges as us but better coached to score goals and with more quality players.

However the point isn't City, its United.

We set up with the wrong mentality. Formation and player selection is not questionable...yet.
We have been great till now. We failed the test to prove we have improved away from home in the big game, with this blatant approach to securing 1 point rather than 3.

I don't think Arsenal were content with the 0-0 at Chelsea as they dominated.
I don't think City were scared to walk into Conte's turf and bully them for 90 minutes, it was 1-0, but it was a hammering.

Are we seriously going to aim for 5/15 points away from home through draws? It is better to have 3 wins and 2 defeats away from home:9/15. It is better to risk everything than do fuck ALL away from home.

I expect us to rock up to Wembley and Emirates and take 6 points. I expect us to lose at Etihad and snatch a draw at Chelsea. So that's 8/15, which is great, if we can get 3 wins from 5 at Home, we will have secured 17-18 points from 30 and potentially we can double our points haul from big games.

Before when there was a top 3 to play, we could be risk averse but now with a top 5 and 10 games , we have to go for it away from home. 15 away points is going to be detrimental to throw away, in the past 3/9 points was fine. But 5/15 is poor stuff.

I'm being objective, we have to improve our points haul. Its great we are wiping away smaller sides, but the league is competitive now. We should have arrived at Liverpool with 3 points on our minds.
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17-10-2017, 04:59 PM (This post was last modified: 17-10-2017 05:03 PM by @JC.)
Post: #45
RE: [Premier League] Liverpool Vs. Manchester Utd 14.10.17
Quote:So your not concerned by our big game record at all? Especially after last season ...

Last season our problem ultimately wasn't that we didn't do well against the big sides it was all of the draws especially to the crap sides like Hull and Burnley and stupid loses like the one to Watford. If you look at SAF's record over his last few seasons, we didn't have a very good record against the top 4 either. Even in the 20th title winning season we lost to Chelsea and City at OT and the season before was the 1-6 hammering and then setting up not to lose at the Emtyhad when Kompany headed in the winner to decide the title race. We've had great performances so far this season up to this last match so I'll wait and see how Jose's plan works out.
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